That's a good point, that it's comes down to the attitude and love of the pastor. Like most "organizations", so to speak, the members are a reflection of the leadership.

IMO, in the non-denom community, yes, they want the unchurched to come but there's this expectation that they will conform to what that community's version of "churched" is. It's been my experience that the mainline denominational churches, or at least the ones I've been to, tolerate, at a minimum, or welcome kids who are active during the service. Where I'm attending now, the Pastor sees it as part of what makes being Christian a "beautiful mess". Now, on the poopy diaper, yeah, that probably should have been changed. I do agree with you, though, what if they just weren't aware of what to do and were scared of getting up and possibly causing a scene. I just feel that the service is an hour of my time, one where I'm responsible for how I respond to God, and that any of these inconveniences are just that... and temporary.

I couldn't agree more. Some of the greatest growth in my faith has come from moments/periods of immense pain and suffering.

Thanks Deb. I think that's the thing. It's easy to talk Jesus, but walking Jesus can really suck sometimes. It's not all rainbows and unicorns, but often entails struggles, pain, and loss. But perhaps that's the point of the incarnation. Jesus endured everything the world could throw at him, and he remained grace-filled and forgiving to the end. Perhaps there's a lesson in there somewhere. :-) It will be interesting to travel this road. The girls are dealing with the emotional uproar that usually accompanies a major upheaval like this. I fully expected it, but that hasn't made it any easier. Hally is having a more difficult time because the one time she's visited, she didn't say what she wanted to and now she's dealing with regret. She's beating herself up over not speaking up, and it's hard, as a parent, to see her going through that. Ashlyn bought her mom a present for Christmas because she felt bad about her Mom not having any, so they'll get a chance to visit this week. It'll be interesting to see what Hally does with a second opportunity.

Thanks AJ, I think they're all interconnected, redemption, forgiveness, and even confession and repentance, yet they're not dependent on each other. They all play together, like instruments in a symphony. I think, and I'm taking a stab in the dark here, that redemption doesn't play as much in our forgiving someone as much as it may play in them forgiving themselves. Our forgiving them, even just a little, can show them that redemption and grace are possible, and sometimes that little spark of hope is all that stands between life and death and can set them on the path towards forgiving themselves. I believe, and sometimes learning this lesson is more difficult than I like, that, like you, redemption is more in the process, the path, than in the destination.