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23
Oct
2011
Jonathan Brink
The Author
Jonathan Brink
I am the Senior Editor at Provoketive. I am the author of the recently published, Discovering the God Imagination. I also serve as Senior Editor for Civitas Press, a boutique publishing firm specializing in inspiring and redemptive ideas. I am developing a new model for publishing and seek to create new opportunities for fresh and creative voices.
Occasionally, I speak on issues of justice, postmodern theology, and living a life in the way of Jesus. I leads workshops on The Practice of Love and Exploring a Postmodern Gospel at BeADisciple.com.
I am a son, a husband, and a father. I live in Folsom, Ca, with my beautiful wife and amazing three children.
The Gates Are Open is reporting that Mars Hill Church (Mark Driscoll’s church in Seattle) is going after another Mars Hill asking them to ceast and desist the use of the name Mars Hill. The post includes the following:
Several people from Mars Hill church in Seattle have contacted me and let me know the intention of the Cease and Desist letter is to have Mars Hill Sacramento change their logo. Pastor Hagan has not given me permission to post the letter from the lawyer: However, though I am not a lawyer, the first two paragraphs make it pretty plain they are to change the Name of the church, the Name of the website and the Logo and artwork. The next two pages explain the rationale in legalese. If the original intent was only to have Mars Hill Sacramento change the artwork, that should be communicated clearly by legal counsel. At this point, it clearly says they must change their name also. That is all I can say about this issue without being able to post a copy of the document.
The original logos are shown below.
What do you think? Does Mark Driscoll have a case?
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Here’s some clarification from Driscoll’s Mars Hill:
http://blog.marshill.com/2011/10/22/clarification-on-some-rumors-that-have-been-on-some-blogs/
This is a weird situation. On one hand, people have a right to defend their intellectual property. Just because they are churches doesn’t make copying any better, not does it exempt Mars Hill from being able to protect that.
According to the link above they do acknowledge that they should have made a phone call first to discuss before sending a cease and desist, but I think the rest of this story is being overblown. It was just a cease and desist. They haven’t dragged them publicly through years of court hearings, or sued for a crazy amount of money, etc.
Would people be as upset if Rob Bell was doing the same thing? I feel like they would just relatively dismiss the whole situation. Yes, Mars Hill’s administration probably could have handled it slightly better, but there’s no reason for anyone to jump down Mark Driscoll’s (considering he’s probably not responsible) back about this.
Deanna, I tend to agree with you. When I first read the post it seemed callous. But when I saw the two logos I had to think twice. I have spent close to 20 years in marketing and they are very similar. It’s one of those things that unfortunately is coming to bite Mars Hill in the butt. When they have a legitimate claim, they are not just dealing with the claim but all the ill will they’ve created over time.
Oh, I agree with you that they have a case with the logo. But unfortunately, in this case there is more than one question here. It’s not just whether or not they have a case. It’s “if they have a case, should a church carry it out,” “how could Mark do that,” and “why would you take another church to court?” It’s marketing, intellectual property, Christians, ethics, law and reactive people all in one happy mess together!
I think they are different enough that Mars Hill does not have a case.
But they ruined their “case” long before they cent the cease and desist letter.
I am thinking of starting a church called Mars Hill New York, and creating a similar logo just to make that point.
Jeremy, in cases like this it comes down to infringement. How much is the property being infringed upon? The problem is there are not just one but three Mars Hill’s in the Sacramento churches network. And the logos having a striking similarity. I appreciate Marsh Hill (Seattle) acknowledging they made a mistake in not calling first.
And Jeremy, what would you hope to accomplish with you new venture?
I don’t think Driscoll has a case. Is he going to go after every little Bible study or small group that calls itself “Mars Hill”?
One of the thing to consider is that Mars Hill in Sacramento is actually riding the coat tails of Mars Hill. In creating an identity, they can take advantage of the similarity that exists to suggest maybe they are similar. It’s the responsibility of the creative designer to think about things like this, so when they are that similar, it gives me pause.
“In creating an identity, they can take advantage of the similarity that exists to suggest maybe they are similar.”
Exactly. If this were a church named the same thing but with a very different website and a logo with no resemblance to Mars Hills Seattle, this wouldn’t be an issue. Even if unintentional, it looks purposeful. Because really, it’s not that difficult to make an interesting, unique logo with the letter M.
I’m sorry, I can see this from a legal standpoint and all. But, what harm does it do? Seriously is anyone in Sacramento going to this church believing that it is somehow a part of the Seattle church when there are literally hundreds of Acts 29 options out there?
This just seems petty to me. How many “First Baptist Church”es are there out there, and does anyone believe that they are all affiliated? If someone were to ask the pastor of the Sacramento church if they are affiliated with the church in Seattle what would he say? Probably “hell-to-the-no.”
I am thinking the Seattle church could be named “Mark Hill” and just avoid a lawsuit all together in the future.
This is the sort of thing that happens to churches when they are forced into the business model and begin to see other churches as “competition” and not just as part of the body of Christ.
Now if they decided to rename the Senior Pastor in Sacramento Mark Driscoll and sold little Mark Driscoll dolls in his image, making some huge sort of profit off of his masculine kung-fu-Jesus-grip, then they might have a case. But come on, seriously?
I agree with Melody Harrison Hanson and John Martinez.
Jonathan, if you hadn’t seen it, there’s an update to the story from the pastor of MH Sacramento here: http://www.scotthagan.net/side-effects/
MH Sacramento was not stealing anything from MH Seattle; honestly one of the most humorous things to me is that if they were copying anybody, it was MH Grand Rapids. Anyway, it’s good news that they seem to have worked it out without legal involvement.
Danielle, I did see the post from your post. I’m glad it was resolved. Unfortunately bad PR in this case is still bad PR. Mars Hill (Seattle) needs to wake up and stop being the bully. I think they had a case, but they just need to listen to how the go about it.
And, the logos for Mars Hill (Grand Rapids) and Sacramento don’t look anything alike.
I think the Golden Arches better watch out — with their M — apparently Mark Driscoll owns the letter.
This is absurd and embarrassing as a fellow believer.
And you wonder why so many people are rejecting the idea of going to church? This is truly sad, embarrassing, absurd, and all the other things people have said it is. What is is NOT is uplifting and beneficial to the body of Christ. Who was it who said “Christianity would be wonderful if it weren’t for the Christians”?
In related news, Mars Hill Church is suing the city of Athens, and Luke, the writer of Acts. Reports say an Unknown god, is still unknown.
It seems extremely petty to me, along with being unbiblical and–from a Christian perspective–unethical. What does Mars Hill Seattle hope to accomplish? Are they gonna stand around high-fiving each other? Is Mark gonna get a big pat on the back and a “job well done” by his staff? They can’t trademark the name Mars Hill because it’s in the Bible. Anyone can use the term if they want to. It’s as silly as (reportedly) Paris Hilton wanting to copyright the term, “That’s hot.” If Mark truly wants his church to be effective in society “that’s not” the way to go about it.